I Used to Think LGBTQ People Were Going to Hell
Thoughts On My convo w/ Kim O'Reilly (Episode 138)
I used to be that guy - I holstered the clobber verses in my belt and could whip them out at a moments notice.
Leviticus says homosexuality is detestable.
Paul said it’s an abomination.
God made Adam and Eve not Adam and …
You get the picture, I’m sure. I knew all the verses forwards and backwards and could argue anybody who thought differently into a corner and make them cry.
BUT THEN.
But then I started to rethink things and you know what? I took the opposite view - there’s nothing wrong with LGBTQ people and there are other ways (I think more responsible ways) to read the clobber verses.
Leviticus wasn’t talking about LGBTQ people.
Paul was talking about sexual ethics.
Adam and Eve weren't even real.
I began to rethink the Bible, how I read the Bible, how I think about the Bible and then I began to rethink how to read and understand these verses that I always assumed could only be understood in one way (my way).
This was all well and good, but in Bible College and Seminary I learned how to debate and argue and prove my point and so the problem became that when my understanding of Scripture changed, my understanding of how to talk about it didn’t.
That’s right.
Whereas I once found it all too easy to be belligerently EXCLUSIVE I now found it all too easy to be belligerently INCLUSIVE.
Whereas I once found it all too easy to prove my CONSERVATIVE points I now found it all too easy to prove my PROGRESSIVE points.
Whereas I once found it all too easy to make PROGRESSIVE people cry and look stupid I now found it all too easy to make CONSERVATIVE people cry and look stupid.
Sigh.
What I’m trying to say is that when I moved from thinking LGBTQ people were destined to hell to really not even believing in hell at all … it was all too natural to bring with me my same desire to prove my point and be right.
I love Kim’s approach, though. Right? She reminded me that when we dialogue with people who disagree with us, we need to assess a few things.
What is MY motive in this discussion? - Do I want to just be right? Do I want to learn from the other person? Do I want to share my view with the other person? Do I want to come out of this still being friends? Or friendly? Or able to speak to one another?
What is THEIR motive in this discussion? - Do they just want to be right? Do they have any desire to learn from me? Are they just looking to fight? Or are they genuinely interested in what I think?
If MY motive isn’t the same as THEIR motive, it doesn't make them wrong and me right or vice versa, but it does require me to pause and wonder if this is the best place for me to put my energy.
This has been a VERY important lesson for me. A lot of the frustration I’ve run into over these last 5 years or so has happened because I went into a conversation genuinely wanting to share and learn all the while knowing that the other person was just coming in to prove me wrong and make me look stupid and so rather than bow out and go put my energy elsewhere, I’ve taken the bait and gone on the attack.
Nowadays, though, I’m trying to pause and ask myself those 3 questions - what’s MY motive? What’s THEIR motive? Will that mix of motives create a good place for me to put my energy?
NOW.
There’s one caveat here, there’s one thing that I will engage in regardless of the mix of motives and I will often come in unapologetically hot; and that’s when the ideas being shared or the rhetoric being used is oppressive, shaming, or abusive in any way, shape, or form. As much as I believe that we are to stand for peace and try to bridge divides and build relationships, I also believe that some temples need to be marched into with whips and tables need to be flipped over as people scatter all over the place.
LGBTQ people shouldn't have rights?
LGBTQ people are going to hell?
God hates LGBTQ people?
Making fun of trans people.
I have little patience for it and although I’ll be happy to end up dialoguing with you when all is said and done and the dust settles, I will grab onto your arguments like a shark and I won’t let go … not because I want to be right or because I want to prove myself, but because I have LGBTQ friends who have carried a lifetime of wounds (emotional and physical) as a result of those kinds of ideas and so although I’m happy to dialogue with someone who has differing ideas, I’ll make it clear that they need to holster their weapons of abusive and oppressive words and talk with some respect.
It’s a hard thing, right?
So.
Hard.
It’s not easy to have these conversations and there are a lot of fine lines to walk when we do. I’m right there with you, and I’m grateful for people like Kim who can help us be more equipped for when these conversations do arise.
✌️
Glenn || PATREON || BUY ME A COFFEE
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We’re doing a series for Lent called, “God Never Said.” I might share some thoughts once a week or maybe every other week. Not sure yet, but the goal of the series is to push up against people’s comfort zones, bring them to the brink of wondering if maybe the things they have been taught to be certain about are actually filled with some uncertainty, and to challenge them to “give up” their certainty regarding certain ideas and doctrines and theologies for Lent and beyond.
This week is called, “God Never Said Someone Needs To Die For Your Sins”. Here’s an excerpt …
"If that child is born with a "sin nature" do we understand the repercussions of such an idea? In essence we're saying that the child was raped by the universe and forced to conceive something within itself that it never gave consent to.
Yeah, I said what I said - the doctrine of original sin essentially says that every child ever born was raped by the universe and force to conceive something within itself that it never gave consent to.
Annnnnnd so our good God is going to do ... what?
Come to the child's rescue?
Walk with the child?
Help the child?
Console the child?
Nah.
How about demand that the child grow up to recognize his/her sin nature and put his faith in Jesus who was supposedly nailed to a cross to take his punishment all the while threatening him with eternal torment if he chooses not to believe all the right things.
Eh?
What?
If we slow ourselves down long enough to really think about what this "Gospel Message" of "Good News" is saying we can begin to see that it's actually not good news, but really, really bad and terrible and awful news for the majority of God's creation.”
Read the rest HERE.